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o n a train crossing the north Atlantic coast of Spain, my wife and I encountered one of the saddest people we ever met. Jonathan rarely smiled and anticipated tragedy at every turn. We called him Mr. Sad Sack because he saw nothing in life but tragedy. He made us think of George Baker’s perpetual loser, Pvt. Sad Sack of World War II. Over dinner one evening high on a windswept bluff above the Atlantic, our driver had a glass of wine. Maybe 2 or 3. Spaniards are weaned on wine. The guy’s tolerance had to be incredible.

Mr. Sad Sack had watched our driver make the ascent up a treacherously curving road, the kind you see in the North Carolina mountains, to our restaurant “We’re all going to die tonight,” he said in funereal tones. “Our driver is going to miss a turn and that’s it. We’re goners.” “You’re serious?” I asked. “You mean we’ll all go down in flames?” “That’s not funny,” he said, his sad eyes ready to accept death in the darkness.

Of course, nothing like that happened. By the time we reached the valley below, Mr. Sad Sack had found something else to worry about. All of us had come to love hearing him moan and groan. Toxic people can be a nightmare – to themselves and those around them. They become Drama Kings and Queens, unnecessarily – and unintentionally – stir conflict, crush morale and damage the emotional well-being of us who live with them. They think they are realists and the rest of us are brainless optimists. At work, you try to avoid them and hope the boss will get rid of them. In your life, you can shut them out. But in your family, that’s far harder. Because they’re your kin, you’re stuck with them.

It can be tempting to give them a dose of what they give everyone else. This never works. Toxic people aren’t capable of much self-reflection. Turning on them only makes them think you are victimizing them. Experts suggest 5 ways to deal with them:

• Don’t argue with them. Some need to argue with anybody willing to do it.

• Avoid them if you can.

• Don’t let their mood affect yours.

• Be aware that they are manipulators and pot stirrers who sow discord.

• Never repeat their rumors or stories. In a long life of dealing with these pot stirrers and perpetual victims, I’ve learned how to spot them. One of the questions I ask in interviews is “What’s the worse thing that’s ever happened to you.” If they give me a Mr. Sad Sack pitiful story, they have told me who they are.

If they can turn it into a funny story with themselves as the butt of the joke, they just improved their chances of landing a job. In an interview, one young man told me the worst thing that happened to him was getting his girlfriend pregnant. What did he do? “I married her,” he beamed, “and we have a wonderful baby girl.”

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